In some of the comments to earlier posts, I see some indications that some commenters believe that if immigrants come into the country, they are going to pull right up and move next door. This is extremely unlikely. And even more unlikely in the red states where a lot of immigrant haters exist, even though those areas have very limited immigrants.
It must be understood that immigration has next to nothing to do with who lives around you. As I have explained before, I live in San Francisco, which is one of the most diverse cities in the United States. In the downtown financial district, you see whites, Asians, Latinos, Indians and blacks. But at the end of the day, they all pretty much go back to their own part of town.
I live in a predominately white neighborhood, with a few Asians around. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it for the first time, the 40 apartment complex I live in is, I think, all white.
I have only a rough idea of where the Filipinos or the Mexicans live. They go to their own neighborhoods at night. It is the same in every city.
There is a large Korean community in LA, a Jewish community, a Persian community, a black community, an Ethiopian community, etc.. Some mix during the day but most go back to their own neighborhoods at night.
Some people like to mix, most like to be with their own. In other cases, some may want to mix based on where they are on the social ladder. Up and coming millennials may want to live in the same neighborhoods, regardless of race. The same for top corporate executives.
So if new immigrants from Haiti or Norway were to enter the US, they are going to, for the most part, find their own communities and not move into our settled neighborhoods. It's a ridiculous idea to think they will en masse. (Though a given neighborhood can change over time, the same way gentrification can make a neighborhood more white.)
-RW
Yes RW, but how are they voting? Is it for more state control or less? Sure, they may not commit crimes and pay taxes and such, but is it really a great idea to let a bunch of unchecked populations like this? I have international friends, but immigration needs to be in really small doses. Pretty good evidence these people are not assimilating in some ways.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I can gather, there are plenty of natural-born citizens who habitually vote for more state control. Who's to say they're not the reason we are where we are, and not immigrants who vote?
DeleteAnd your proposed solution is to give the state more control to keep out people who, you claim, want to vote to give the state more control? Not only is that philosophically contradictory, but if your claim is correct, it is the least likely solution: why would the modern state apparatus want to keep out people who will further empower it?
Great point NAPster. Some of these alt right guys make it sound like it's only brown skinned people voting for the left.
DeleteA road trip to Ann Arbor Michigan, Madison Wisconsin, Chapel Hill NC or Berkeley California would do these guys some good. They will find a bunch of white people far more left wing oriented than the immigrants they love to bash.
If those amnesty turds were all voting Republican or Libertarian, you can guarantee the Dem would be calling for a border wall.
DeleteRe: The Lab Mismanager,
Delete--- Yes RW, but how are they voting? ---
Immigrants cannot vote by law unless they're naturalized citizens. Even if some counties allowed immigrants to vote on local elections, that would only serve to out them at risk for deportation if they ever apply for citizenship, so the idea that immigrants vote is mostly a nativist hobgobblin.
--- is it really a great idea to let a bunch of unchecked populations like this? ---
This perverse ideal of wanting to control what people do is the hallmark of socialists and Statists. At least I thank you, Mismanager, for letting everyone else see your true colors.
If death doesn't stop a person from voting in Cook County Illinois, how will immigration status?
DeleteRe: JJM,
Delete--- If death doesn't stop a person from voting in Cook County Illinois, how will immigration status? ---
The dead do not risk deportation, J.
So long as they vote democrat there's no risk.
DeleteFor the misinformed:
ReplyDeletehttps://blog.jim.com/politics/trump-is-on-the-ball/
Trump obstructs H1B, the program for legally bringing in cheap workers from India and Pakistan.
DOJ files suit against company for not hiring Americans
US agency raids Indian IT firms
Silicon Valley Staffing Firm Charged, H1B Fraud
Let Africa Sink
http://www.kimdutoit.com/2017/05/05/let-africa-sink/
Vague opening sentence (some, some, some). The only comment that's anywhere near RW's straw man, concerns the hypothetical situation of having to choose between Haitians or Norwegians filling up your neighborhood. No one actually thinks that immigrants will move next door.
ReplyDeleteCalling people "statist" is irrelevant to the matter at hand. The welfare state is still in control. We all pay taxes, so for all intents and purposes we're "statists", voluntarily or involuntarily.
What RW's libertarian position amounts to in today's sad reality, is that of an involuntary statist arguing for open borders. If that position has any consequences, they will be the same as if a lefist voluntary statist had argued for unchecked immigration.
One thing is true: most people like to be with their own. The result of this all too human inclination where all the diverse nations of Europe. They are in the process of being dissolved by force, thanks to the neo-con foreign policy of the non-nation RW is writing from.
On immigration, RW is your typical LiTO (Libertarian in Theory Only) whose comments are only marginally different from any open borderite leftist. In this respect, he's a de facto leftist whose only non-leftist characteristic is calling other people "statists".
Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Richard
Re: Sagunto,
Delete--- Calling people "statist" is irrelevant to the matter at hand. ---
Of course is relevant. People who believe in State-driven "solutions" to problems created by the State itself is Statism.
--- The welfare state is still in control. ---
Please. Welfare is merely a political tool to curry favor with voters who believe in State-managed charity. Politicians make use of many tools like that, mostly Social Security, Mwdicare and where to keep building weapons, which explains why those things balloon the budget.
--- We all pay taxes, so for all intents and purposes we're "statists", voluntarily or involuntarily. ---
That's ridiculous. Yoy don't even understand what being a Statist means.
What is this 'open borders' people speak of in the USA. In 2016, 11.4 million people entered the lottery for 50,000 diversity visas. 50,000 is 11.35 million closer to zero than 11.4 million. In 2015, the United States admitted less than a half the OECD average of immigrants as a percentage of total population. Between 2000 and 2015, 109 countries saw their immigrant population grow at a faster rate than that of the United States.
DeleteNot exactly 'open borders'
@Andrew, Teddy Kennedy promised his 1965 immigration bill would not change America's demographics. Since then 60 million have come in from the 3rd world. This school year, in NJ, for the 1st time, white kids are a minority.
DeleteRe: Sagunto,
Delete--- On immigration, RW is your typical LiTO (Libertarian in Theory Only) whose comments are only marginally different from any open borderite leftist. ---
What an outrageous and baffling thing to say. So WHAT if Robert's comments are no different from those of a leftist, if both are right?
Let's get one thing clear: Robert is not for Open Borders as defined by the left. He has said repeatedly that immigration should be left to the Market as long as no welfare payments and benefits are offered. I define Open Borders from a libertarian perspective as open to commerce, to a free flow of goods, services, capital and, yes, labor.
What the ethno-centrists want to see is a State that imposes itself between the peaceful and voluntary agreements between immigrants and those who want to hire them, aell to them, rent to them and even marry them. Those bigots are so far removed from libertarianism that I laugh at your slanderous accusation.
If they want to live around their own they can stay in their own countries.
ReplyDeleteThis very society you describe isn't a nation at all, its a bunch of colonies that you expect to somehow coexist.
--- If they want to live around their own they can stay in their own countries. ---
DeleteWhy? Why not be here and be productive?
--- its a bunch of colonies that you expect to somehow coexist.---
But they DO co-exist. That is what Commerce, Markets and Industry foment: Co-existence. Cooperation. You are simply letting your bigotry do the thinking for you.
Not live next door? Huh?
ReplyDeleteYou're likely looking at a product of SF's housing polices. For me the immigrants are living next door. I can hear about a dozen different not-english languages just if I walk over to the nearby shopping area. It's not difficult to get that foreigner in your own home country vibe either.
I can deal with it, I've been dealing with it in ever greater proportions since the 1980s, but this old fashioned notion of various ethnic areas is just that, an old fashioned notion. It may still hold true in some places for one reason or another but its hardly universal.
Re: JJM,
Delete--- I can hear about a dozen different not-english languages just if I walk over to the nearby shopping area. ---
God forbid people go to the shopping area you happen to visit and not speak English! What has the world come to?
Oh, I almost forgot:"Your Majesty".
Fool.
Torres,
DeleteDo you always make an ass of yourself by "reading between the lines" on a statement of fact or do you just do it here?
Did you even bother to read the entirety of what I wrote or did your knee just jerk your fingers to keyboard? Why didn't you read the second paragraph?
My point was to show that RW's experience is hardly that of everyone.