Monday, October 27, 2014

BREAKING: Walter Block to Sue His University for Libel

Libertarian scholar and economist Walter Block has just posted the following notice at LewRockwell.com:

Seeking lawyer to sue my university for libel


I am seeking a lawyer to sue my university, Loyola New Orleans, for libel. This problem all started out when the NY Times falsely accused me of supporting slavery. Thereupon, the president of my university, Fr. Kevin Wildes, SJ, published a letter in the school paper expressing “dismay” that I would take this position. He did not consult me about this beforehand, otherwise I could have cleared this up. I am already suing the NY Times for libel, and now wish to do so regarding Fr. Wildes, SJ, the trustees of the university who have not answered my request for justice (see below), and 18 Loyola faculty members who published a similar letter also in the school paper.
Hopefully, the lawyer will undertake this lawsuit on a contingency basis. I would prefer a
libertarian attorney, if at all possible, but this is not necessary. If you fit this bill, and/or know of people who do, please get in touch with me at wblock@loyno.edu and/or ask them to do so.
Here is some background information on this matter (the links to the letters in the Maroon, the school paper no longer function; I have asked that this be corrected, but the editors have not seen fit to respond to my request either):
Memo
Date: 10/17/14
To: The members of the board of trustees of Loyola University New Orleans
pres@loyno.edu; progers@loyno.edu; randerson13@fordham.edu; william.blase@att.com; jbowler@fairfield.edu; mbraden@saintpeters.edu; bobbrown@paradigm-usa.com; EChase@dillard.edu; derby@neworleansbaseball.com; frank.kennedy.1@bc.edu; bjanke@bakerdonelson.com; james.mcbride@capitalone.com;jmahoney@lifestrats.com; okeefejo@bc.edu; presidentquinn@scranton.edu;rsalmi@shc.edu; psoukup@scu.edu; jfinan@fmolhs.org; dcfaustmd@yahoo.com; angtat@comcast.net; robert@leblancandco.com; kpoorman@pspcapital.com; jsimmons@quantumcapitalpartners.com
From: Prof. Walter E. Block, Harold E. Wirth Eminent Scholar Endowed Chair and Professor of Economics, Dux Academicus award winner, 2007
I have been threatened on campus with physical harm by two young African-American males. I now fear for my physical safety on campus and off campus as well. One of these young men said to me something to this effect: “You’re the professor who thinks slavery wasn’t that bad. We’re going to get you for that.” They then sneered at me and walked off before I could try to convince them that I had never said that, that I totally disagreed with that pernicious perspective, that I had been misquoted entirely out of context by the New York Times, by Fr. Kevin Wildes, SJ and by 18 faculty members of Loyola University.
I am now writing to you with the request that you use your good offices to ameliorate this situation; to bring me back insofar as is possible to the status quo ante, before my good name became linked with so despicable a viewpoint. I make this request of you both as a matter of justice because I am entirely innocent of these charges, and, also, as a matter personal safety. Thanks to the president of our university (Maroon, February 6, 2014) and to 18 faculty members at Loyola (Maroon, February 6, 2014) who made this specific charge, I am now known on campus as a person who thinks slavery was “not so bad.”
For weeks after the publication of these two letters in the Maroon, I feared that some ignorant person would engage in assault and battery on my person as a result of their acts. I had reported this concern of mine to the Loyola University Police Department under complaint #0736 on March 1, 2014. In the event, one day later, I was indeed threatened, as mentioned above. I registered a complaint about this to the New Orleans Police Department on March 2, 2014 (complaint # C-03185-14) and added a report of this new occurrence to my initial complaint to the LUPD. Should I suffer actual physical violence in the future, I will hold Fr. Wildes, S.J. and the 18 signatories of their letter morally culpable for inciting a mob mentality on campus against me.
How did it happen that these important members of the Loyola community decided to make these fallacious charges? It all began when The New York Times interviewed me about libertarianism. One of the issues discussed concerned slavery. I maintained that the only reason slavery was an abomination was that it was compulsory; innocent people were abducted, kidnapped, and forced against their will into servitude. Had this been done on a fully voluntary basis, a total and complete hypothetical situation if ever there was one, then and only then would slavery have been “not so bad.” The New York Times’ interpretation? Block thinks that actual slavery as practiced in the 19th century and before was “not so bad.” But I was trying to probe WHY slavery was such an abomination. I contended that it had nothing to do with picking cotton, singing songs, eating gruel, etc. Rather, it was due only, and solely, to the fact that the institution of slavery was compulsory.
I later found a quote from Frederick Douglass (a 19th century equivalent of Martin Luther King and Malcolm X) saying much the same thing, albeit far more eloquently:
“My feelings were not the result of any marked cruelty in the treatment I received; they sprang from the consideration of my being a slave at all. It was slavery, not its mere incidents I hated. I had been cheated. I saw through the attempt to keep me in ignorance. I saw that slaveholders would have gladly made me believe that they were merely acting under the authority of God in making a slave of me and in making slaves of others, and I felt to them as to robbers and deceivers. The feeding and clothing me well could not atone for taking my liberty from me.” — Growing in knowledge. – Frederick Douglass, The Life and Times of Frederick Douglass: From 1817-1882 (published 1882)
Namely, the “mere incidents” of slavery, picking cotton, eating gruel, singing songs, had nothing to do with the viciousness and depravity of the “curious institution.” Rather, it was the fact that the slaves were forced into that status that was the problem.
Of course, the New York Times also bears some responsibility for this predicament I am now enmeshed in, but I contend that were it not for these two subsequent letters to the Maroon, my situation on and off campus would be much safer.
Did it not occur to Fr. Wildes SJ and the 18 faculty members to first approach me to verify what I had actually said before verbally attacking me? In denying me this common courtesy they have perpetuated misinformation and exposed me to threats of physical harm. Their rush to condemn evidences a major lapse in academic integrity and a total disregard for fair play in intellectual discourse. This process continues. Prof. Hughey, in the March 21, 2014 issue of the Maroon goes so far as to assert the following:
“I find it hard to understand how —in a time when one of your own faculty members — Walter Block — openly defends segregation and has suggested that slavery was ‘not so bad’ — you can decide to let go one of the more robust teachers and scholars of an antithetical and empirically grounded position on race, slavery and segreation (sic).”
Thanks to the scurrilous letters of Fr. Wildes, SJ and that group of 18, my name is further dragged through the mud. If this were just an academic debate, I could take it. I have been criticized in the literature many times before. I have a thick skin. But this is an issue that far transcends mere academic dialogue. It reaches to a hostile working environment, and to actual threats against my physical safety.
Was I president of Loyola University, and one of the members of my faculty was quoted in the New York Times to the effect that slavery was “not so bad,” I would have immediately called him into my office and said something along the lines of “Have you lost your mind? Tell me that you were misquoted, please!” Then, when this hypothetical professor not only claimed precisely that, but further, offered evidence for that claim with a long paper trail of articles in refereed journals, instead of expressing “dismay” at this professor, as Fr. Wildes, SJ did of me, I would have defended him against the New York Times. Fr. Wildes, SJ did none of this. He never spoke to me once about this, despite my numerous requests of him that he do so.
Why am I writing to you, the board of trustees of Loyola University? I full well realize that you are busy men and women. I do so for several reasons. First, I have exhausted all other means open to me within the university in my quest for justice. To wit, (1) I have attempted to put my case before the University Police and the Office of Emergency Management office; I could only file a report with the former; the latter declined to meet with me nor would they allow me to file a complaint with them. (2) I went to the Ombudsman, with a request that he set up a meeting for me with Fr. Wildes, SJ, with the 18 faculty members who also unfairly condemned me for supposedly supporting slavery, and with the members of the Diversity Task Force who found me guilty of racism and sexism (also on a hearsay basis) several years ago. The Ombudsman declined my latter two requests, and was unsuccessful with the first. (3) I went to the reconciliation committee, and failed there, again, on all three counts. (4) I took my case to the Faculty Senate, and was unsuccessful one more time. (5) I asked both Provost Manganaro, and former Loyola President James Carter, SJ to try to set up a meeting with me with Fr. Wildes, SJ to discuss this matter in a civil manner; neither succeeded. (6) I wrote a letter to Fr. Wildes, SJ, attached, but he has not replied to me. Second, we are now undertaking a $100 million fundraising effort, Faith in the Future: The Campaign for Loyola University New Orleans. The last thing I want is more heightened negative publicity (I am already suing the New York Times for libel) at such an important epoch in our school’s history. Despite having been mistreated, I still love this university. Third, you are my last best hope within the academic community to right this wrong.
I now make several specific requests of you:
1. That you use your good offices to convince Fr. Wildes, SJ that the appropriate course of action for him to take is to renounce his article in the Maroon, and to publicly apologize to me for publishing it.
2. That you require of Fr. Wildes, SJ that he reopen my condemnation by the Diversity Task Force of 2008. No member of our academic community should ever be condemned without being able to give his side of the story; to launch a defense; to question his accusers. I have no objection to being tried for this supposed thought crime of mine. But, I really would like to be tried before being found guilty. I don’t believe in any statute of limitations on justice. Otherwise, reparations for slavery, for the Holocaust, would be unjustified.
Re hostile work environment, denial of academic freedom, physical danger
To date neither Fr. Wildes, SJ, nor any of these fellow 18 faculty colleagues of mine have seen fit to apologize for their libelous remarks about me. I feel that my academic freedom has been violated. Thanks to their actions, their incitement, their libels, I am no longer as free to pursue my academic career of teaching, researching, writing and publishing. I feel they have placed me in a hostile work environment and in actual physical danger. My reputation has been desecrated on campus.
What to do about that letter in the Maroon penned by 18 of my fellow faculty members? It would be a clear violation of their academic freedom to “order” them to retract their libelous and incitement-filled comments. I certainly urge no such course of action.
The best way, in my opinion, to deal with their call to “condemn” me is to do exactly as they suggest. They ask that the Loyola University community “condemn and censure (me) for (my) recurring public assaults on the values of Loyola University, its mission…” But what they have in mind, extrapolating from how the Diversity Task Force treated me in 2008 (see below in the reference section) is to do so behind closed doors. I speculate on the basis of this extrapolation that did they have their ‘druthers, they would gather several “scholars” of their ilk and find me guilty of supporting slavery.
In my view, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Let us by all means implement their proposal. Let us have a university-wide open hearing to decide if I am to be condemned and censured for my views on slavery. I ask you, the trustees, to appoint a three judge jury or panel to hear from any or all of the 18 signatories, or from anyone else, who is willing to offer evidence in support of this contention that I think slavery “not so bad.” But then, also, allow me to tell my side of the story; to cross examine them, and to be cross examined by them. Then, when my name is cleared as I have no doubt it will be, and the publication and promulgation of the findings of this panel were publicized, this would go a long way toward ensuring my safety on and off campus. I full well realize that in this paragraph I am requesting you to make up a new process out of whole cloth, completely outside of the faculty handbook. That document, the faculty handbook, utterly failed me in the case of the Diversity Task Force. I see no reason why justice would be done to me in this case, were we to be limited to our faculty handbook. In effect, I am asking that the faculty handbook be modified so as to incorporate a process appropriate to the quandary I now find myself enmeshed in. No longer should faculty members be found guilty of anything without being offered a chance to defend themselves.
I am not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that in a conspiracy, each party is entirely guilty for the entire damage, even though every member may have only contributed a part of it. So, in a sense it is moot as to who is the inciter: The New York Times, Fr. Wildes or the group of 18. They are all fully responsible for any results of their acts in my view if my understanding of the laws is correct. I am determined to seek justice in all three cases.
It is my understanding that in addition to being President of Loyola University, Fr. Wildes, SJ is also a member of the faculty. In this latter role he, also, has academic freedom, and I would not want my call to deal with him on this matter to be interpreted as my request that his academic freedom be in any way curtailed (although as a faculty colleague, I think he should at least have the decency to reply to my offer to debate him on these issues). However, academic freedom only stretches so far. I do not think it covers incitement. Secondly, Fr. Wildes SJ did sign his letter as president of the university. As such, he is a member of the administration, not only the faculty, and does not in this role have academic freedom, in my possibly mistaken interpretation.
It is time to conclude this letter. Please do respond. You are the leaders of our university, and I have no one else to whom to appeal inside its environs.
Yours truly,
Prof. Walter E. Block
References:
Block is accused by New York Times of thinking slavery “not so bad”:
Tanenhaus, Sam and Jim Rutenberg. 2014. “Rand Paul’s Mixed Inheritance.” January 26; http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/us/politics/rand-pauls-mixed-inheritance.html?hp&_r=4
Block’s reply to the New York Times:
Block, Walter E. 2014. “Reply to the Scurrilous, Libelous, Venomous, Scandalous New York Times Smear Campaign.” January 30; http://www.lewrockwell.com/?post_type=article&p=473740&preview=true
March 25, 2009. New Orleans, LA. Loyola University New Orleans, Economics Club. “Is the capitalist system guilty of racism, sexism? No.: Walter E. Block responds to his politically correct critics, defending against charges of racism and sexism.
http://mises.org/MultiMedia/Block/Block_03-25-2009.wmv;
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For more on the controversy see

 THE WALTER BLOCK CONTROVERSY










61 comments:

  1. "But what is a person's 'reputation'? What is this thing which may not be 'taken lightly'? Clearly, it is not a possession which may be said to belong to him in the way, for example, his clothes do. In fact, a person's reputation does not 'belong' to him at all. A person's reputation is what other people think of him; it consists of the thoughts which other people have.

    A man does not own his reputation any more than he owns the thoughts of others - because that is all his reputation consists of. A man's reputation cannot be stolen from him any more than can the thoughts of other people be stolen from him. Whether his reputation was 'taken from him' by fair means or foul, by truth or falsehood, he did not own it in the first place and, hence, should have no recourse to the law for damages."

    Can someone please explain how suing in a court of law is consistent with his argument that "(w)hether his reputation was 'taken from him' by fair means or foul, by truth or falsehood, he did not own it in the first place and, hence, should have no recourse to the law for damages."


    Before someone launches an attack on me because of my question...
    I am a huge fan of Block.
    I understand what his argument was and believe that the NY times maliciously misquoted him.
    I understand Block's desire to clear his name of the false charge for many reasons including his personal safety.

    This is not a "special case."

    RW, you just made a post highlighting how minimum wage is not a special case for the laws of supply and demand. I do not accept that suing the university (undoubtedly an institution that promotes statism) is acceptable because of the admittedly horrible philosophies taught there.

    I am sure I disagree with the 18 faculty members Block references on nearly all things involving politics/economics (I am an ancap). I am not willing to make a "special case" exception for Block's correct argument that someone does not own his reputation and therefore should have no legal recourse.

    I believe Block is acting in a manner inconsistent with his own writings. He is seeking to use the courts to force the University to act in a specific manner. If he wins it would be Block who is initiating violence via the State to get his name cleared on the basis of a sullied reputation (something he correctly claims you cannot own).

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    1. I will simplify this for anyone wanting to defend Block.

      1. Block argues that you cannot own your reputation and that you should have no legal recourse.

      2. Block sues and will argue that he owns his reputation and is looking for the law to provide him recourse.

      How is this not inconsistent?

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    2. Although I'm starting to feel like a broken record, if one adopts Bastiat's viewpoint that an important characteristic of anything considered "property" would be that it has value, one could easily see that Dr. Block's reputation has value and therefore would be justified in protecting his property via the usual tort.

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    3. Nick I do not understand why you are importing Bastiat's view here. Block's own words state that a reputation cannot be owned. By choosing to sue, he will argue in court that he owns his reputation.

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    4. Dr. Block lives within the state system. He has argued for non-state roads, but he has never said that using state roads makes a libertarian a hypocrite. We live in the real world and libertarian or not you are not even given a choice.

      In this instance Dr. Block is being made a victim of a state ideology (in this instance 'diversity') and has been threatened with harm by people carrying out the state ideology (even if they are acting on their own initiative), and been denied protection and remedy by state law enforcement.

      Clearly Dr. Block is not being hypocritical and is living in the real world. The world that we all live in. No one wants to be beaten or killed. This calumny against Dr. Block is an attempt to deny him his life and liberty. There are many parallels to the case of Pym Fortuyn, a Dutch politician that was assassinated after a sustained campaign of media demonization.

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    5. Matt, are you suggesting that Block did not consider the "real world" when he wrote Defending the Undefendable?


      Your road analogy is extremely weak. The only way to not use the roads is to literally be a shut in. Even then he would likely need food and water delivered to him that use the roads making him a beneficiary of the state roads. Being a shut in and starving to death is obviously not a reasonable option. To live a normal life you must use the roads, there is no other option.

      Here, Block is choosing to sue. He is not being forced to sue.

      Your "state ideology" is incoherent.

      The only people who threatened harm to Block are the two black students who will NOT be part of the libel suit.

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    6. "Nick I do not understand why you are importing Bastiat's view here."

      Well, even though Block may not agree with the argument, I'm kind of sticking up for him and who knows, maybe RW will convince him to reconsider. (and maybe RW will himself incorporate his IP views to includes Batiat's concept of value)

      You know, it's the whole ideological promotion thing. Ultimately I'm just showing how it's a consistent, logical viewpoint if one can accept the concept that a characteristic of property is "having value".

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    7. Nick and I discussed this previously on EPJ:

      http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2014/02/will-walter-block-be-on-firm.html?showComment=1391489627075#c7188723142032632517

      "Dr. Block lives within the state system. He has argued for non-state roads, but he has never said that using state roads makes a libertarian a hypocrite. We live in the real world and libertarian or not you are not even given a choice." --Matt 5:46AM

      This is true, and Block (humorously) points out that only a libertarian would consider such concerns! However, as I point out in the above EPJ discussion, utilizing the State monopoly of law is a per se violation of the NAP, and (had Block considered it) he did have an option to speak only on the condition he was quoted in full, or he could have stipulated via a contract that he would have final say in how he was represented in the article. Thus, any conflict could be sorted out via arbitration- a non-NAP violating course of action. Here are some specific quotes from Block and Rothbard on the subject of reputation as property:

      "The counter-view, and the current basis for holding libel and slander (especially of false statements) to be illegal is that every man has a “property right” in his own reputation, that Smith’s falsehoods damage that reputation, and that therefore Smith’s libels are invasions of Jones’s property right in his reputation and should be illegal. Yet, again, on closer analysis this is a fallacious view. For everyone, as we have stated, owns his own body; he has a property right in his own head and person. But since every man owns his own mind, he cannot therefore own the minds of anyone else. And yet Jones’s “reputation” is neither a physical entity nor is it something contained within or on his own person. Jones’s “reputation” is purely a function of the subjective attitudes and beliefs about him contained in the minds of other people. But since these are beliefs in the minds of others, Jones can in no way legitimately own or control them. Jones can have no property right in the beliefs and minds of other people." (Rothbard, The Ethics of Liberty pg. 126)

      "But what is a person’s “reputation”? What is this thing which may not be “taken lightly”? Clearly, it is not a possession which may be said to belong to him in the way, for example, his clothes do. In fact, a person’s reputation does not “belong” to him at all. A person’s reputation is what other people think of him; it consists of the thoughts which other people have. A man does not own his reputation any more than he owns the thoughts of others—because that is all his reputation consists of. A man’s reputation cannot be stolen from him any more than can the thoughts of other people be stolen from him. Whether his reputation was “taken from him” by fair means or foul, by truth or falsehood, he did not own it in the first place and, hence, should have no recourse to the law for damages. (Block, Defending the Undefendable pg. 49)"

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    8. FYI- Even in light of my agreeing with Block and Rothbard that reputation is not property, and in consideration that utilizing the coercive legal system is a per se violation of the NAP, I have contacted attorney Marc Victor (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj6zHnQwyUI and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUow1DhAubA) to alert him of Block's request for a libertarian attorney.

      I hope anyone else who loves Dr. Block, as I do, will contact an attorney they know who could represent him in these pursuits. (Perhaps in light of the above libertarian concerns of the coercive system, it would be better that Block has a zealous pro-stater as his attorney, but I digress...)

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    9. Nick: "Ultimately I'm just showing how it's a consistent, logical viewpoint if one can accept the concept that a characteristic of property is "having value".

      Its only consistent if you throw away what Block said and adapt your/Bastiat's argument. That is not showing how Block is acting consistent.

      You are showing how it COULD BE consistent if Block comes out and states that he no longer agrees with his position in Defending the Undefendable.

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    10. Anon, I agree with you...it coming purely from Bastiat's perspective.

      I hope Block one day changes his mind.

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    11. Great discussion and I agreed with Rick Miller until he revealed his own irrationality by contacting an attorney on Block's behalf. This type of enabling behavior is something I usually see from an extremely empathic person. But it is a good example of why words will not save us. There are too many sociopaths who will lie, steal and kill if they can get away with it and too many empathic people who will always forgive allowing lying, theft and murder to flourish.

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    12. Brian,

      Could you elaborate on how contacting an attorney on Block's behalf is irrational?

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    13. "This type of enabling behavior is something I usually see from an extremely empathic person."

      See, that's the big irony to all this discussion.

      Anti-IPers are claiming there's no harm when IP value is appropriated or damaged, yet deep down Rick knows there's something wrong with that theory, to the point he's taken it upon himself to try to help out Block.

      The cognitive dissonance is killing him. (and I like Rick btw, despite our little dust up in the linked commentary)

      I like Block too.

      I have respect for both of these people....but for them to continue on in their claim that the appropriation and/or direct harm to IP(whether it's reputation, trademark, unique idea's, etc.) value is not "real" harm seems to defy explanation and obviously reality.

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    14. Nick,

      "Anti-IPers are claiming there's no harm when IP value is appropriated or damaged, yet deep down Rick knows there's something wrong with that theory, to the point he's taken it upon himself to try to help out Block.

      The cognitive dissonance is killing him. (and I like Rick btw, despite our little dust up in the linked commentary)"

      I wouldn't go that far, LOL!

      Remember it isn't the Non-Harm Principle...otherwise, your pro-IP views would be clearly considered "libertarian".

      And, despite our differences, Nick, I like you too...(hugs all around)

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    15. Using the government legal system to sue someone for the words they have spoken or written is an act of aggression. Providing legal council so he can pursue this aggression is not rational if you believe in the NAP.

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    16. "Remember it isn't the Non-Harm Principle"

      lol...very true...but you are walking a real tight line there.

      Harm might be incidental at times, but aggression that results in harm is not and that is the crux of the issue. For someone(the NYT's interviewer) to deliberately misrepresent Block's views seems aggressive to me on the face of things.(it is obviously harming him too)


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    17. Brian,

      "Using the government legal system to sue someone for the words they have spoken or written is an act of aggression. Providing legal council so he can pursue this aggression is not rational if you believe in the NAP."

      The first part of your statement is quite true! However, I am not "providing" Dr. Block with anything! Any aggression pursued will be Dr. Block's burden to bear....Why don't you direct your zealotry in his direction, ok?

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    18. Anonymous@October 28, 2014 at 9:03 AM

      I have read Defending the Undefendable, and the chapter about the libeler. I don't recall a chapter defending people that threaten you will physical harm.

      In this instance Dr. Block is not violating the NAP Since he has not initiated aggression. Violence has already been initiated against Dr. Block by people carrying out the state ideology of diversity, and the state law enforcement with a monopoly on violence have refused to protect him. What do you expect Dr. Block to do? A libertarian must no initiate aggression but is not obliged to turn the other cheek.

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    19. Matt, the two black students who threatened Block are not involved in the libel suit (they possibly committed slander and possibly assault (unlikely due to lack of imminent threat))

      Are you suggesting that the University and faculty should be responsible for the threats made by the students?

      How is the letter signed by the faculty an act of violence?

      Please define "state ideology" and explain how it is violence.

      How is the police's refusal to act on Block's claims an act of violence?

      I understand that Block fears for his safety, and rightfully so. The letter is not an act of violence. The contents of the letter have upset people who do not understand the truth of the matter. Their anger could lead to violence, but the professors that signed the letter did not threaten violence against Block directly, nor did it call for others to be violent toward Block.

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    20. Anonymous@October 28, 2014 at 8:59 PM

      Do you not understand the meaning of 'state ideology'? It is an ideology promulgated by the state, in this specific instance, the ideology of diversity. This ideology is mandated and enforced by the state, and is the primary factor influencing this matter, not academic disagreement.

      The two black males that threatened Dr. Block (you call them 'students' without evidence that they are students - Dr. Block doesn't know and presumably neither do you) felt emboldened to make their illegal threat against Dr. Block because they knew that they were acting in accordance with state ideology. They would have also known that Dr. Block would have no help from the state law enforcement, because they are also enforcing state ideology along with formal laws.

      Since you don't seem to even accept the idea of state ideology, let me give you a foreign example. During the cultural revolution in China, certain individuals would be denounced in newspapers (as Dr. Block was in the NYT and the university paper), and then they would be targeted for violence. While the writers of the articles did not perform the violent acts themselves, they did know that the objects of their libel were certain to be lynched. Exactly the same applies here. In Chinese however, there was not even recourse to a law suit.

      When the state asserts that the state and only the state has a monopoly on force, and then withdraws protection from certain individuals (as happened during the cultural revolution and is happening to Dr. Block now), it makes that individuals the target of whatever criminals feels bold enough to cause mayhem.

      Dr. Block is hemmed in by the state system on all sides. What is happening to him is because of the state, and all that is left is to use the few means that the state has allowed to defend himself. In this it is exactly the same as using a government road, or taking a shower with government water. There is not one single person on the planet living today that is capable of living a libertarian life because we are surrounded by the state everywhere.

      One last note on libel - I am a libertarian, and although I do not believe that my reputation belongs to me, we live in a state where libel is expected to be answered by lawsuits if the allegations are not true. One such thing happened to me. In a libertarian society there would be so much libel that the whole idea of libel would be a non-concept.

      In my case I was informally accused of a crime (informally, meaning the accusation was not reported to the police, and being a false accusation would be a crime in itself). Because of the very serious nature of the allegation I was informed by the employer that I would have to take legal action against the libeler, or it would impact the reputation of the firm that I was working for and I would have to be let go.

      Fortunately for me the libel was patently false, I was not in the area at the time of the alleged incident, had many witnesses, etc, and the lawsuit was settled very quickly for a decent sum of money. The idea that I had initiated aggression against the libeler in this instance is ludicrous, as much as it is ludicrous to say that Dr. Block is initiating aggression.

      Living in the state means following state rules. Come back to me when you tell the state's agents that you are not going to pay taxes.

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    21. Anon 8:59,

      I totally agree!

      Matt,

      I answered your question about what libertarian course of action Block could have taken above:

      "...he did have an option to speak only on the condition he was quoted in full, or he could have stipulated via a contract that he would have final say in how he was represented in the article. Thus, any conflict could be sorted out via arbitration- a non-NAP violating course of action."

      Or, Block could have done what Lew Rockwell did to the NYT, not allowing access because they are "part of the regime." When I first read he had done this, I thought it was unwise because it likely seems a bit crazy to the layman to say such a thing. But, Rockwell is looking better and better by the day.

      Delete
    22. Rick, I agree that Lee Rockwell took the correct course. He named the NYT and their reporters as part of the regime, which is true. Dr. Block made a mistake that he hopefully will not repeat. That said Dr. Block is not committing aggression against the NYT or the school. The NYT and the school are part of the regime. It isn't aggression it is self defense.

      Delete
    23. Matt,

      "That said Dr. Block is not committing aggression against the NYT or the school. The NYT and the school are part of the regime. It isn't aggression it is self defense."

      I get what you are saying, and this is part of Block's logic (as well as Wenzel). However, this is a precarious position to take, as quite a few have noted. What this position says is that even if the act is not an NAP violation, one is justified in pursuing aggression because the NAP only applies to "innocents". However, guilt or innocence refers to a specific action, not a general course of action.

      I posited the question in the prior discussion, what if Joseph Stalin (one of history's most deadly NAP violators) walked in to the room and called me a "doo doo head"? Would I be justified in murdering the scumbag as a "defense"? Certainly Stalin would be considered "part of the regime". But, responding to a non-aggressive act (name calling, or in this instance libel) with aggression is not justifiable, no matter who we are talking about! It isn't who did it, rather what they did that determines the propriety of responding with aggression.

      Further, this type of reaction to a non-aggressive act is a slippery slope which can provide justification for many non-libertarian courses of action. For instance, any and all government agents are per se violators of the NAP because their salary as well as many of their daily tasks are rooted in coercion. Does this justify aggression against any and all government agents ad hoc? What about those political entrepreneurs who are not part of the State, but who happily take the mulcted revenues in to build bridges to nowhere? It is important to consider the implications of supporting aggression against those who are "part of the regime"; in this instance it is pursuing coercive violence via the monopoly legal system, but any form of aggression against coercive agents can be construed as "self-defense" under this logic.

      Delete
    24. Matt,

      "Do you not understand the meaning of 'state ideology'?" I asked you to define it. You chose to ask me if I dont understand the term I asked you to define and then define it. Nice backhanded insult. I can do that too. Everything you have posted on this page = sweet word salad bro.


      "The two black males that threatened Dr. Block (you call them 'students' without evidence that they are students " = desperate attempt to score a point because you are getting torn apart here. But yeah I assumed they were students, doesnt change a damn thing.


      " felt emboldened to make their illegal threat against Dr. Block because they knew that they were acting in accordance with state ideology. " Really?
      1. It could be illegal, not a certainty.
      2. How is saying something like "we we're going to get you for that" in accordance with state ideology? This is why I asked you to define it. You keep using it to describe all sorts of actions.


      "They would have also known that Dr. Block would have no help from the state law enforcement, because they are also enforcing state ideology along with formal laws"
      1. How do you know what the young men know? Have you spoke with them? You take me to task for calling them students but you presume to know their thoughts? Yikes.
      2. How would they have known that Block would have no help from law enforcement? Are there laws on the books that say "people who are ancaps and say slavery isn't that bad are will not be protected at all"? How do you know that the students know what the police response would be in the future? Seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions here.


      "Since you don't seem to even accept the idea of state ideology, let me give you a foreign example." Again a condescending insult and a refusal to define "state ideology."


      "During the cultural revolution in China, certain individuals would be denounced in newspapers (as Dr. Block was in the NYT and the university paper), and then they would be targeted for violence. While the writers of the articles did not perform the violent acts themselves, they did know that the objects of their libel were certain to be lynched. Exactly the same applies here. In Chinese however, there was not even recourse to a law suit."
      1. You meant "In China however." And grammatically you should have wrote "However, in China...."
      2. How do you know that the writers at the NYT and the signatories of the letter at the university knew that their writings would undoubtedly cause Block to be threatened with violence or actually harmed? Have you spoken with the writers?
      3. I asked you this before and you dodged the question so I will ask again. Do you think the signatories of the letter are responsible (in a legal sense) for the threats against Block made by the two young men?




      Delete
    25. Matt,
      "When the state asserts that the state and only the state has a monopoly on force, and then withdraws protection from certain individuals (as happened during the cultural revolution and is happening to Dr. Block now), it makes that individuals the target of whatever criminals feels bold enough to cause mayhem."
      1. Police have no duty to protect anyone therefore there is no protection to be "withdrawn."
      2. How do you know that the police are "withdrawing protection" from Block because of his world view? Why is it not just another case of police being lazy and terrible at their jobs? Have you spoken to the police about why they took no action?
      3. ' it makes that individuals" it should be "it makes those individuals"
      4. "it makes that individuals the target of whatever criminals feels bold enough to cause mayhem." You meant "criminals feel" not "feels." This part of the sentence is written poorly but you are essentially saying that because of the "withdrawing of protection" (even though there is none to withdraw) will cause mayhem and you think this episode is an example of that. However, this is apparently the first threat against Block. Assuming it was the first threat, Block had not filed a report with the police and therefore they had not "withdrawn protection" yet. Again you are arguing that the young men knew how the police would handle the matter. How did you know their thoughts?

      "Dr. Block is hemmed in by the state system on all sides. What is happening to him is because of the state, and all that is left is to use the few means that the state has allowed to defend himself. "
      1. Block's relationship with the university is voluntary. Are you suggesting that Block is not bright enough to realize that the university promotes statism?

      "In this it is exactly the same as using a government road, or taking a shower with government water."
      1. How is choosing to work at a university the exact same as using the road system that governments own nearly 100% of? Are you arguing that Block has virtually no other option but to work for a statist university?

      "There is not one single person on the planet living today that is capable of living a libertarian life because we are surrounded by the state everywhere." I will pretty much agree with this statement though I would argue that people living in the Amazon though living within a country are not subject to their laws.




      Delete
    26. Matt,
      "One last note on libel - I am a libertarian, and although I do not believe that my reputation belongs to me, we live in a state where libel is expected to be answered by lawsuits if the allegations are not true. One such thing happened to me. In a libertarian society there would be so much libel that the whole idea of libel would be a non-concept."
      1. Why do the expectations of statists bear any weight on libertarians acting in a manner consistent with what they preach?
      2. What is the point of this paragraph? Why are you suddenly now talking about a libertarian world and making assertions as to what would happen there? What does this have to do with Block's situation?


      "In my case I was informally accused of a crime (informally, meaning the accusation was not reported to the police, and being a false accusation would be a crime in itself). Because of the very serious nature of the allegation I was informed by the employer that I would have to take legal action against the libeler, or it would impact the reputation of the firm that I was working for and I would have to be let go.

      Fortunately for me the libel was patently false, I was not in the area at the time of the alleged incident, had many witnesses, etc, and the lawsuit was settled very quickly for a decent sum of money. The idea that I had initiated aggression against the libeler in this instance is ludicrous, as much as it is ludicrous to say that Dr. Block is initiating aggression."
      1. Your employer threatened to fire you if you didn't sue. In order to save your bacon you filed a lawsuit arguing that you owned your reputation even though nobody owns their reputation.
      2. The alleged libeler in your situation did not commit violence against you. As you admitted the accusation was not reported to the police. No one threatened to imprison or fine you.
      3. You used the state to initiate violence against the libeler.


      "Living in the state means following state rules."
      1. Are you suggesting that people must follow laws that they believe to be immoral simply because the state commands it?
      2. What does this statement have to do with Block's situation? Your situation? Are you suggesting that you are legally required to sue libelers?


      "Come back to me when you tell the state's agents that you are not going to pay taxes."
      1. I am assuming you think this was like a deathblow to a flawlessly argued post. It simply isnt.
      2. This sentence is meant to prove the assertion that living in a state means playing by their rules and it seems you believe you are providing some huge epiphany to me that it must be true because I pay taxes. I pay taxes to buy my way out of jail every year. I have determined that the penalty for not paying taxes when I am aware of my "duty" to pay. However, I do break laws because I have determined that the penalty is low that I prefer the gains of breaking the law (consuming marijuana illegally for example).



      Your word salad failed to answer my questions so I will state them again.
      Are you suggesting that the University and faculty should be responsible for the threats made by the students?

      How is the letter signed by the faculty an act of violence?

      Please define "state ideology" and explain how it is violence.

      How is the police's refusal to act on Block's claims an act of violence?


      I also have new questions.
      Do you believe that anyone who isn't an Ancap promotes "state ideology"?

      If you believe the answer is yes, are you then suggesting that it is acceptable for an ancap to sue a statist for libel, but not acceptable to sue another ancap for libel?

      Delete
    27. @ Rick

      "But, responding to a non-aggressive act (name calling, or in this instance libel) with aggression is not justifiable, no matter who we are talking about!"

      One small tidbit on that...if you view harm caused by said act(libel,as a form of fraud) as damaging property(yes, I know many here don't consider reputation as such), like reducing the VALUE(HT to Bastiat) of said reputation, then said libel would be a NAP violation and any action to stop it consistent within the NAP. (proportionality in justice being noted, HT to Lila Rajiva for pointing that out to me once)

      I know you and I disagree on this Rick, but I just want to add it for another perspective based on ones understanding(opinion) of what property "is".

      Delete
    28. Correction
      I have determined that the penalty for not paying taxes when I am aware of my "duty" to pay (is too high).

      Delete
    29. Rick Miller, I would say that Stalin is so dangerous to his associates that you would have the right to put him down like a mad dog even if he didn't libel you. Assuming that is that you knew that he had a habit of ordering the murder of his associates and people that he doesn't know personally too.

      I don't suggest blowing the brains out of every postman (state agent) you see, but I think it is fine to sue a postman if you have some sort of issue with him. The same goes for the NYT and the school administration.

      Anonymous:

      I refer, again, to the state ideology known as 'diversity'. You may not accept the concept of a a state ideology, even though most states have one or more ideologies, or you may believe that diversity is not an ideology but a descriptive word.

      I view it as a state ideology, sitting on the pillars of state education, affirmative action of all kinds, mandatory white privilege 'training', and so on. Feel free to dispute or dissent - I don't want to argue definitions or go in circles.

      Your questions -
      "1. Police have no duty to protect anyone therefore there is no protection to be "withdrawn.""

      So none of this 'To Serve and Protect' stuff, huh? I know that libertarians believe that police do not effectively protect the public, but as far as I know they are supposed to do so in theory.

      "2. How do you know that the police are "withdrawing protection" from Block because of his world view? Why is it not just another case of police being lazy and terrible at their jobs? Have you spoken to the police about why they took no action?"

      Here we return to the issue of state ideology. Imagine that Dr. Block was black. Now imagine two white men approached him on campus, saying “You’re the professor who thinks slavery was that bad. We’re going to get you for that.” How do you think the police would react to that? First the entire police force would be mobilized. The administration would issue a 'soul searching' announcement. There would be candlelight vigils, etc. Such things have happened many times on campus even for hatecrime hoaxes. The unequal protection is as clear as day. Only a libwap would deny it.

      Delete
    30. 4 ****

      Answered with 2. They know. Everyone knows. The 'students' weren't worried that their threat might lead to punishment at all. Dr. Block is 'fair game'.

      "Block's relationship with the university is voluntary. Are you suggesting that Block is not bright enough to realize that the university promotes statism?"

      Dr. Block most assuredly realizes it. Dr. Block has already attempted to use what remedies are supposed to be available to employees, and Dr. Block has been denied in every instance. If you consider that Dr. Block has a legitimate grievance as I do, then you must wonder why the university is denying him justice. Do they deny every employee justice? That is highly doubtful. Just politically incorrect violators of state ideology. Namely, heretics like Dr. Block.

      "How is choosing to work at a university the exact same as using the road system that governments own nearly 100% of? Are you arguing that Block has virtually no other option but to work for a statist university?"

      All higher education is statist. Do you know how accreditation works? These days universities will not even be accredited for education if they do not conform to the state ideology... diversity. Dr. Block could seek employment with other schools and they too would be statist.

      "Why do the expectations of statists bear any weight on libertarians acting in a manner consistent with what they preach? "

      The expectations of statists matter very much. You could have a libertarian religious loon in a position of power and as long as he or she stayed true to libertarianism, there would be no problems from this person. A statist religious loon on the other hand is a danger to all.

      By the same token the statists will keep escalating this until Dr. Block is demonized to the extent that some unstable person seeks to murder him on campus (which is why I mentioned Pym Fortuyn earlier). Lacking protection, Dr. Block only has the sue-for-libel avenue left to him by the state. Like using a government road, he doesn't have any alternatives.

      I mentioned my situation because it is similar in the respect that the person that I sued would have gladly sued me had I accused him of being a liar, mentally unbalanced, etc. The fact is that I had to act within the parameters given to me by the state. I can't make up my own rules and neither can Dr. Block.

      "However, I do break laws because I have determined that the penalty is low that I prefer the gains of breaking the law (consuming marijuana illegally for example)."

      I think all drugs should be legal and free to consume, but your marijuana habit explains much about your writings.

      "Do you believe that anyone who isn't an Ancap promotes "state ideology"?"

      No. They might have other ideologies that they want the state to promote, and may not support the current one.

      It is OK to sue for libel, not only statists but especially statists. I don't think that Dr. Blocks argument in Defending the Undefendable in relation to 'the libeler' stands well in a statist society. In a libertarian society there would be so much libelous 'noise' that libel would lose its sting. In this society we have to sue someone for libel if we are libeled, especially if it can lead to physical danger as in the case of Dr. Block. As for me I am not going to allow a campaign of libel culminate in my murder out of some sort of principle of not suing someone. I believe that this could happen to Dr. Block.

      Delete
    31. Matt,

      I believe this will be my last series of posts responding to you. Any reasonable intellectual discussion requires terms to be defined. You claim that you "don't want to argue definitions or go in circles." You have failed to even offer a coherent definition of "state ideology" or "diversity." Honestly, its just a mish mash of terms and phrases you have thrown out.

      Additionally you fail to address even half of the issues brought up. Hardly a recipe for a productive conversation.

      Finally, you fail to recognize the difference between a statement and a question. Look at the FAQ on your website. Q stands for question. Your FAQ is basically all statements. You fail to address many of my questions.

      Never the less, I will once again dismantle your word salad.

      Delete
    32. Matt,

      "I refer, again, to the state ideology known as 'diversity'. You may not accept the concept of a a state ideology, even though most states have one or more ideologies, or you may believe that diversity is not an ideology but a descriptive word.

      I view it as a state ideology, sitting on the pillars of state education, affirmative action of all kinds, mandatory white privilege 'training', and so on. Feel free to dispute or dissent - I don't want to argue definitions or go in circles."
      1. Is diversity the definition of state ideology or a subsect of state ideology. Your "definition" is literally unintelligible.

      Your questions -
      "1. Police have no duty to protect anyone therefore there is no protection to be "withdrawn.""

      So none of this 'To Serve and Protect' stuff, huh? I know that libertarians believe that police do not effectively protect the public, but as far as I know they are supposed to do so in theory.

      1. This is not a question, it is a statement.
      2. Police have not duty to protect citizens outside of special circumstances (like being in their custody). This isnt a belief. Its case law.


      2. How do you know that the police are "withdrawing protection" from Block because of his world view? Why is it not just another case of police being lazy and terrible at their jobs? Have you spoken to the police about why they took no action?"

      Here we return to the issue of state ideology. Imagine that Dr. Block was black. Now imagine two white men approached him on campus, saying “You’re the professor who thinks slavery was that bad. We’re going to get you for that.” How do you think the police would react to that? First the entire police force would be mobilized. The administration would issue a 'soul searching' announcement. There would be candlelight vigils, etc. Such things have happened many times on campus even for hatecrime hoaxes. The unequal protection is as clear as day. Only a libwap would deny it.

      1. You don't know if it is the police just being terrible at their jobs / lazy.
      2. You haven't spoken with the police involved.
      3. You argue by creating a hypothetical where a black person says "slavery wasn't so bad" and think this is somehow a good argument. Jaw droppingly hilarious.

      Delete
    33. 4 ****

      Answered with 2. They know. Everyone knows. The 'students' weren't worried that their threat might lead to punishment at all. Dr. Block is 'fair game'.

      1. Can you offer any proof? If Block is "fair game" why have only two young black people made such statements. Why have people not been more inflammatory and engaged him with shouting matches?

      You claim to know what the police think, what the professors think, and what young black men think. My questions shouldn't be difficult then.



      "Block's relationship with the university is voluntary. Are you suggesting that Block is not bright enough to realize that the university promotes statism?"

      Dr. Block most assuredly realizes it. Dr. Block has already attempted to use what remedies are supposed to be available to employees, and Dr. Block has been denied in every instance. If you consider that Dr. Block has a legitimate grievance as I do, then you must wonder why the university is denying him justice. Do they deny every employee justice? That is highly doubtful. Just politically incorrect violators of state ideology. Namely, heretics like Dr. Block.

      1. My point with the original question is that Block is not forced into working to ANY university. He can work strictly for an institution like the Mises Institute but he chooses to work at a statist university. (No, I am not criticizing him for that decision). You claimed that Block was "hemmed in", my question was designed to show that he can choose to work at an ancap institution. This point went over your head.

      Delete
    34. Matt,

      "How is choosing to work at a university the exact same as using the road system that governments own nearly 100% of? Are you arguing that Block has virtually no other option but to work for a statist university?"

      All higher education is statist. Do you know how accreditation works? These days universities will not even be accredited for education if they do not conform to the state ideology... diversity. Dr. Block could seek employment with other schools and they too would be statist.

      1. Again you missed my point. He is not forced into being a professor. It is his choice.
      2. The only way you can avoid using the roads or benefiting from them is to lock yourself in your home, and not accept anything that was delivered via the roadways. This is entirely different than choosing to be a professor at a statist university as there are infinite ways to earn a living.
      3. The fact that you brought up accreditation demonstrates how lost you are in this conversation.

      Delete
    35. Matt,
      "Why do the expectations of statists bear any weight on libertarians acting in a manner consistent with what they preach? "

      The expectations of statists matter very much. You could have a libertarian religious loon in a position of power and as long as he or she stayed true to libertarianism, there would be no problems from this person. A statist religious loon on the other hand is a danger to all.

      By the same token the statists will keep escalating this until Dr. Block is demonized to the extent that some unstable person seeks to murder him on campus (which is why I mentioned Pym Fortuyn earlier). Lacking protection, Dr. Block only has the sue-for-libel avenue left to him by the state. Like using a government road, he doesn't have any alternatives.

      I mentioned my situation because it is similar in the respect that the person that I sued would have gladly sued me had I accused him of being a liar, mentally unbalanced, etc. The fact is that I had to act within the parameters given to me by the state. I can't make up my own rules and neither can Dr. Block.

      1. I bring up a point about libertarians acting in a manner consistent with their beliefs and you respond with another hypothetical example (like the 4th time in this conversation).
      2. How is suing the only avenue left? Does he not have the choice to not sue?
      3. You claim that statists will escalate until Block is demonized to the point that he will be murdered. Are you claiming that suing is the only way for him to stay alive? What would happen if he sues and loses? Are you arguing that if he loses he will die? (could you be anymore hyperbolic?)
      4. You sued because if the situation were reversed the guy would sue you? So what. That doesn't absolve you of claiming to own your reputation (which is impossible) and that you used the state to inflict violence on someone who did not initiate violence against you. You had the option of not suing. That is within the "parameters given to (you) by the state." You only sued because your boss threatened to fire you. That isn't the state forcing you to sue buddy.

      Delete
    36. Matt,
      "However, I do break laws because I have determined that the penalty is low that I prefer the gains of breaking the law (consuming marijuana illegally for example)."

      I think all drugs should be legal and free to consume, but your marijuana habit explains much about your writings.

      1. Way to ignore the whole analysis. My point is that your statement of ""Living in the state means following state rules" was absurd. You don't need to follow the rules that you do not agree with, though it may be a good decision to do so as a strategic matter (paying taxes to avoid jail.)
      2. Nice insult.

      Delete
    37. Matt,
      "Do you believe that anyone who isn't an Ancap promotes "state ideology"?"

      No. They might have other ideologies that they want the state to promote, and may not support the current one.

      It is OK to sue for libel, not only statists but especially statists. I don't think that Dr. Blocks argument in Defending the Undefendable in relation to 'the libeler' stands well in a statist society. In a libertarian society there would be so much libelous 'noise' that libel would lose its sting. In this society we have to sue someone for libel if we are libeled, especially if it can lead to physical danger as in the case of Dr. Block. As for me I am not going to allow a campaign of libel culminate in my murder out of some sort of principle of not suing someone. I believe that this could happen to Dr. Block.

      1. How do statists not promote "state ideology"? Please explain. If they promote the state to do anything they are calling for violence . How is that not promoting "state ideology"?

      2. Defending the Undefendable was not written about people's actions in an ancap society. It was written for the world we live in.

      3. You are not forced to sue for libel. This is obvious. Claiming that "we have to sue someone for libel" in this society is absurd.

      Delete
    38. Matt,
      you still failed to adequately answer these questions yet again.
      How is the letter signed by the faculty an act of violence?

      Please define "state ideology" and explain how it is violence.

      How is the police's refusal to act on Block's claims an act of violence?

      Delete
    39. In your Marijuana filled haze you have not noticed that I edited one week word in my example of two white men approaching a black professor. In this they tell the professor that they will 'get him for that' for saying that slavery was 'so bad'. It is this that would have an incredible reaction on campus.

      As for defending the undefendable, I never thought that the chapter on the libeler would work in a society that is presumed to be free of libel, (and thus libel must be remedied by law). Dr. Block would have discovered this on this own by now.

      I should point out that I am not an American, and come from a different state with different laws concerning libel. In my jurisdiction Dr. Block would have no trouble suing for libel at all in other case. On the other hand not suing for libel could put him at a disadvantage (where I live. I can't speak for America). Acquiring a unchallenged reputation of discriminating against black people would put him at risk of discrimination lawsuits, and so on. Another reason why people are hemmed in by the state.

      In China people were murdered by the pen. Their deaths were the result of newspaper articles denouncing them as heretics to the state ideology (socialism). The writers of the articles knew that the mobs would go after the heretics. The campaign against Dr. Block has the same characteristics.

      Delete
    40. Matt,

      "Rick Miller, I would say that Stalin is so dangerous to his associates that you would have the right to put him down like a mad dog even if he didn't libel you. Assuming that is that you knew that he had a habit of ordering the murder of his associates and people that he doesn't know personally too."

      When you are saying I "would have the right to put him down like a mad dog", you are indicating that I have a positive right to dole out justice as I see fit. In your opinion, does each individual have this positive right? What about Stalin- does he have the positive right to put people down?

      "I don't suggest blowing the brains out of every postman (state agent) you see, but I think it is fine to sue a postman if you have some sort of issue with him. The same goes for the NYT and the school administration."

      Perhaps you would expand upon this further. Why is it "fine" to take inherently non-libertarian courses of action when dealing with a State agent (or a proxy of the State such as NYT, or the Marxists profs at Loyola)?

      Delete
    41. "When you are saying I "would have the right to put him down like a mad dog", you are indicating that I have a positive right to dole out justice as I see fit. In your opinion, does each individual have this positive right? What about Stalin- does he have the positive right to put people down?"

      Hi, Rick.

      No, obviously there are no positive rights. My bad for writing 'rights' when I could have wrote 'justified'. Since there is no way of knowing that you would come out of your meeting with Stalin alive, I would say that you would be justified to defend yourself, based on his history of murdering associates. Self defense, I say.

      "Perhaps you would expand upon this further. Why is it "fine" to take inherently non-libertarian courses of action when dealing with a State agent (or a proxy of the State such as NYT, or the Marxists profs at Loyola)?"

      In their work for the state, they have already consented to the state as the arbiter of everything. Therefore there is no NAP violation because they have implicitly accepted the state as the resolution mechanism.

      Delete
  2. What ass clowns.

    Good luck Dr. Block!!!

    ReplyDelete
  3. I would like an explanation as to why Block is violating the NAP by asking the government to initiate force against the NY Times and President Wilde.

    According to libertarian code, libel does not violate the NAP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He wrote an explanation not too long ago on LRC if memory serves me correctly. (on his suit against the NYT's)

      Basically, his argument for suing the NYT's was that such an organization could not exist in a libertarian society and that they were proxies for the State, not "innocent" and therefore not deserving of libertarian oriented courtesies. (I'm paraphrasing obviously)

      Obviously, I like Bastiat's argument better which fully justifies a suit...but it is what it is. I'm just glad he's suing. (I've contributed financially to it as well, I'd like to see others do the same)

      Delete
    2. "I would like an explanation as to why Block is violating the NAP by asking the government to initiate force against the NY Times and President Wilde."

      Look at your statement. Block is looking for the government to initiate force against the University . Initiation of violence violates the NAP.

      "According to libertarian code, libel does not violate the NAP."

      Exactly. The University and the professors did not initiate violence against Block by making their claims. Block is the one initiating violence.

      Delete
    3. He also also stated you can be a libertarian and accept all kinds of state courtesies so you cannot really have it both ways....

      Delete
    4. Fraud does violate the NAP, though. Lying about Block's statements regarding slavery is a fraud that will cause, and probably has caused, Block to lose income via speaking engagements or reduction of book sales and that sort of thing.

      Delete
    5. Ryan, are you arguing that Block has a property right to money that he could potentially earn at speaking engagements that are not yet booked?

      Delete
    6. Ryan,

      "Lying about Block's statements regarding slavery is a fraud..."

      How is that? (Not necessarily disagreeing at this point, but curious as to why you think this is so.)

      Also, if NYT did commit fraud, why isn't Block bringing a lawsuit for fraud?

      Delete
    7. "Also, if NYT did commit fraud, why isn't Block bringing a lawsuit for fraud?"

      I believe that may be because of how the current legal system defines fraud. I'm glad though that you are open to the notion that the NYT's committed fraud(I think they did), because fraud is a clear NAP violation if damages can be proved.

      Delete
  4. A big part of the problem is the society that we live in today. Institutionally powerful people like Fr. Kevin Wildes, the diversity committee, and the 18 academics that condemned Dr. Block behave like this because there are no consequences for their actions. Indeed, they may even profit from these actions.

    In times this kind of scurrilous behavior was held in check to an extent because there was always the chance that the offended party would demand a duel. The year 1887 saw the last formal duel in the USA, and Dr. Block would have been well within his rights to demand a duel with Fr. Kevin Wildes in those days. In those circumstances the article by Fr. Kevin Wildes would likely never have been written.

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    1. Matt,

      "In times this kind of scurrilous behavior was held in check to an extent because there was always the chance that the offended party would demand a duel. The year 1887 saw the last formal duel in the USA, and Dr. Block would have been well within his rights to demand a duel with Fr. Kevin Wildes in those days. In those circumstances the article by Fr. Kevin Wildes would likely never have been written."

      I really like this suggestion, Matt! A duel would certainly be another non-NAP violating course of action to resolve this conflict. I wonder if even one of the libbies that Block is going after could merely hold a gun in their hand without peeing their pants!

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  5. As a zealot myself I can see when zealotry without reflection can lead one astray. And suggesting a duel could solve the problem of the "scurrilous behavior" of verbal disagreements is surely astray of a rational suggestion. If you cannot persuade your opponent (Fr. Kevin Wildes, the school and the NYT) through rational argument that they are wrong, and you refuse to ignore their verbal ranting or remove yourself from such a "hostile" environment (Dr. Block writes: "I still love this school"), then by all means forget about intellectual argumentation and let the opponents shoot it out. The suggestion by Matt may have been tongue-in-cheek, but it is in fact what Dr. Block has decided to do in a legal sense. And it reflects the reality that most humans (even Dr. Block) believe that the ultimate decider is might makes right.

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    1. Brian,

      "...suggesting a duel could solve the problem of the "scurrilous behavior" of verbal disagreements is surely astray of a rational suggestion. If you cannot persuade your opponent (Fr. Kevin Wildes, the school and the NYT) through rational argument that they are wrong, and you refuse to ignore their verbal ranting or remove yourself from such a "hostile" environment (Dr. Block writes: "I still love this school"), then by all means forget about intellectual argumentation and let the opponents shoot it out."

      Dueling is not a way I would personally handle conflict, but it is a voluntary agreement. Whether or not dueling will "solve the problem of the 'scurrilous behavior' of verbal disagreements" is a utilitarian concern irrelevant to dueling being a per se libertarian act.

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    2. Rick - Point taken. I thought the words: "..was held in check to an extent..." was meant as a partial solution. However, I agree that dueling itself is not a violation of NAP.

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  6. I don't say that Fr. Wildes, SJ is an agent of the state. Nor, do I say that about the other 18 Loyola faculty members who trashed my reputation. I say, only, that they are members of the ruling class, and thus fair game for a libel lawsuit. On libertarian ruling class theory, see:

    Block, 2006; Domhoff, 1967, 1971, 1998; Donaldson and Poynting, 2007 ; Hoppe, 1990; Hughes, 1977; Kolko, 1963; Mises, 1978; Oppenheimer, 1975; Raico, 1977; Rockwell, 2001

    Block, Walter E. 2006. “Radical Libertarianism: Applying Libertarian Principles to Dealing with the Unjust Government, Part II” Reason Papers, Vol. 28, Spring, pp. 85-109;http://www.walterblock.com/publications/block_radical-libertarianism-rp.pdf; http://www.walterblock.com/wp-content/uploads/publications/block_radical-libertarianism-rp.pdf

    Domhoff, G. William. 1967. Who Rules America? Englewood Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.

    Domhoff, G. William. 1971. The Higher Circles: The Governing Class in America. New York: Vintage Books

    Domhoff, G. William. 1998. Who Rules America? Power and Politics in the Year 2000, Third Edition, Santa Cruz: University of California

    Donaldson, Mike and Scott Poynting. 2007. Ruling Class Men: Money, Sex, Power. Peter Lang.
    http://books.google.com/books/about/Ruling_Class_Men.html?id=V-KjZ8p3N2oC

    Hoppe, Hans-Hermann. 1990. "Marxist and Austrian Class Analysis," The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. 9, No. 2, Fall, pp. 79-94; http://mises.org/journals/jls/9_2/9_2_5.pdfhttp://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:K12nTci91bQJ:www.mises.org/journals/jls/9_2/9_2_5.pdf+%22Marxist+and+Austrian+Class+Analysis,%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

    Hughes, Jonathan R.T. 1977. The Governmental Habit: Economic Controls from Colonial Times to the Present. New York: Basic Books,

    also shows US ain’t laissez faire in 19th cent)

    Kolko, Gabriel. 1963. Triumph of Conservatism, Chicago: Quadrangle Books

    Mises, Ludwig von. 1978. The Clash of Group Interests and Other Essays. New York: Center for Libertarian Studies. http://www.mises.org/etexts/mises/clash/clash.asp

    Oppenheimer, Franz. [1914] 1975. The State, New York: Free Life Editions

    Raico, Ralph. 1977. "Classical Liberal exploitation theory: a comment on Professor Liggio's paper," The Journal of Libertarian Studies, Vol. 1, No. 3, Summer, pp. 179-184;http://mises.org/daily/4567/; http://mises.org/document/1641/Classical-Liberal-Exploitation-Theory-A-Comment-on-Professor-Liggios-Paper

    Rockwell, Jr. Llewellyn H. 2001. “Liberty and the Common Good” December 31;
    http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=860

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  7. I don't think this is going to achieve anything but draw more negative attention.

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    1. Wags,

      Why do you say that? What do you think will happen?

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    2. I have to agree with Wags. Whether Block wins or loses it will only muddy the image of the freedom movement and degrade libertarian principles. If Block wins freedom of speech becomes less absolute along with all other libertarian principles (in the eyes of the public). The movement moves toward an image as just another special interest group "lobbying" the establishment. He looses and the establishment can say "I told you these libertarians are just unprincipled trouble makers." Either way the influence of the freedom movement becomes weaker than it already is, if that's possible.

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  8. So, sue them already. The tedium of this argument of yours with Loyola is beyond description. You posted the entire email exchange between you and the Loyola pinheads on the LRC blog. That was tedious enough, but you've dragged it out for several years now. I wonder if anyone ever told you that the way to be truly boring is to tell everything.

    What did you expect when you chose to become a professor at Loyola? If you didn't know they were a pack of jackals from the first, you must have had some inkling by the time you decided to make a career there. still, you stayed. Live with it, Doctor, and release just the basic details, please.

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