Wednesday, June 20, 2018

The Fear of Immigrants Syndrome



A commenter at the post, A Comment on Strategies and Tactics Toward Advancing Liberty, has left this cute comment:
 In a PPS, if a pregnant immigrant mom and her toddlers wandered off and stole some apples to eat from a private farm, the property owner could shoot them in the head on the spot. Or chop them up for the garbage disposal on live TV. Or turn them into sex slaves for life. Meanwhile, until that glorious day arrives, all 7 billion people in the world can set up makeshift plastic tents on the government street where my little driveway ends. A public relations dream for libertarians.
It should be noted that this commenter is generally sound in his comments here at Target Liberty, but a fear of immigrants has apparently been triggered by Donald Trump.

Freidrich Hayek in Chapter 10: "Why The Worst Get On Top" of The Road to Serfdom warned us that the worst leaders trigger this type of fear (my bold):
It is in connection with the deliberate effort of the skillful demagogue to weld together a closely coherent and homogeneous body of supporters that the third and perhaps most important negative element of selection enters. It seems to be almost a law of human nature that it is easier for people to agree on a negative program-on the hatred of an enemy, on the envy of those better off than on any positive task. The contrast between the “we” and the "they, the common fight against those outside the group, seems to be an essential  ingredient in any creed which will solidly knit together a group for common action It is consequently always employed by those who seek, not merely support of a policy, but the unreserved allegiance of huge masses. From their point of view it has the great advantage of leaving them greater freedom of action than most any positive program. The enemy, whether he be internal, like the "Jew or the “kulak,” or external, seems to be an indispensable requisite in the armory of a totalitarian leader.
And thus Hayek explains how this type of leader can twist the morals of the masses:
While we are likely to think that, since the desire for a collectivist system springs from high moral motives, such a system must be the breeding-ground for the highest virtues, there is, in fact, no reason why any system should necessarily enhance those attitudes which serve the purpose for which it was designed. The ruling moral views will depend partly on the qualities that will lead individuals to success in a collectivist or totalitarian system and partly on the requirements of the totalitarian machinery.
And thus we see how the supporters of pulling children from their parents believe this is somehow high moral ground.

It is Trump triggering fears about immigrants in the deep recesses of the emotional mind in a large mass of a civilized society, fears that would only make sense when a small number of homo sapiens roamed the land and the civilized respect for neighbors was non-existent.

To present an argument in the fashion as the commenter does that "all 7 billion people in the world can set up makeshift plastic tents on the government street where my little driveway ends," is an indication of enormous overflows of emotion rather than deep thinking about the civilized world.

Seven billion people are not going to flow onto his government street. This is bizarre hyperbole. None are.

In San Francisco, which is a sanctuary city and has an enormous illegal population, there are none living on the streets. Further, there are sections of the city where no illegals can be found (e.g. Nob Hill, North Beach). It is just very poor understanding of how immigrant population flows occur, and where immigrants relocate, to think they are going to move into his neighborhood. Indeed, he is doing nothing other than supporting national central planning as if that was needed to keep immigrants out of his neighborhood.

And if 7 billion people flowed to the United States then land values in the rest of the world would be bargains and those who fear immigrants could buy up property there and live like a king. Of course, this is all imaginary nonsense that ignores the basic economics of supply and demand that tells us that the entire planet is not going to move to a side street on Malibu Beach.

As for the commenter's representation of a PPS, he is simply dishonest. In my book, Foundations of Private Property Society Theory: Anarchism for the Civilized Person, I make clear that the killing of a child is a horrific act and there are simple ways to avoid this outcome and the central planning alternative of overarching rules has led to hundreds of millions dead. It is the central planning which is the real threat and the great danger.

Meanwhile, while I am discussing how to limit deaths and consider alternatives, this "high virtue" commenter supports the taking of children from their parents.

-RW  

21 comments:

  1. --- Of course, this is all imaginary nonsense that ignores the basic economics of supply and demand ---


    The distopia promoted by Trumpistas and promoted for years by some Republicans tonscare children and clueless adults, in which the 7 billion populating other lands jist want to uproot themselves and come to the US because Disneyworld is awesome or something, is founded on that level of economic ignorance. Every time I explain to commenters like Paul Hansen and Lab Manager that the Market already limits the numner of immigrants whoncome to the US much more efficiently than government can, they lose no time to show the kind of hostility towards markets and people's free decisions one finds among Marxian zealots. Those Trumpistas couldn't care less about supply and demand except when they misuse the concept to complain against "Them Immigruntz who takum er jebz!" while committing the labor lumping fallacy. "They drive wages down! Supply and Demand!"

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    1. Yours is a simplified description of how markets work over time. It has no use in this debate. If labor is free, the demand for labor is unlimited. Migrants already work and live in horrific conditions for little pay. Yet more pour in, bidding down the price of migrant labor. And by the way, their employers don't even have the courtesy to pay other taxpayers for their laborers' externalities.

      You don't know the psychic profit of immigrants coming to America. Having an anchor baby here could be the same psychic profit to an invader as a million dollar salary has for a normal person. So, really it's you who is illogical and making specious arguments (perhaps due to your extreme bias).

      You seem to think Mr. Market is an all-knowing person who dictates the flow of capital and labor to the most efficient places at the perfect time. That's not how it works. Markets can be as ugly, illogical and unpredictable as the people participating in them and artificial laws that govern them.

      Let me ask you, do you support the right of these invaders to sell themselves into indentured servitude?

      Delete
    2. Re: Stuffed Pimento,

      ─ Yours is a simplified description of how markets work over time. ─


      No, it is not.

      ── If labor is free ──

      It CAN'T be free. Learn economics for a gawd-damned change before showcasing your ignorance.

      ── Migrants already work and live in horrific conditions for little pay. ──

      Your concern for immigrant pay and conditions is touching. Of course, it is insincere.

      Immigrants already made the choice to come to the US and work for that pay and conditions which you label "horrific". That's a trade they're willing to make.

      ── Yet more pour in, bidding down the price of migrant labor. ──


      Despite the horrific conditions and low pay, they keep coming?

      Maybe because it is NOT true that immigrants drive wages lower. Yours is the fallacious "race to the bottom" argument peddled by Marxians whenever they propose minimum wage hikes. It is BAD economics when they argue it and it is BAD economics when YOU argue it. You completely ignore the DISHUTILITY of labor and the DEMAND for labor.

      ── And by the way, their employers don't even have the courtesy to pay other taxpayers for their laborers' externalities. ──

      Aw, the 'externalities' canard! Why, I haven't seen that one since... Oh, since I read it from a Marxian decrying how we raped the planet!


      ── You don't know the psychic profit of immigrants coming to America. ──

      By their actions they shall speak. If they keep coming and they stay is because they're PROFITING from their work, and so are the people who employ them, rent to them, sell to them, buy from them and even marry them.


      ── Having an anchor baby here ──

      Again with that red herring? The "anchor baby" canard is built on the misconception that a baby can sponsor his or her parents. Also, you keep jumping from one place to another, first by showing this false concern for immigrant work conditions and pay to now berating immigrants for having children.

      ── it's you who is illogical and making specious arguments (perhaps due to your extreme bias).──


      Blah, blah, blah, pot calling kettle black, blah, blah, blah.


      ── You seem to think Mr. Market is an all-knowing person ──


      THERE YOU GO! See? Again, the same Marxian canards: Markets aren't efficient, or Markets are not rational, or people are too stupid to make their own decisions, or "you libertarians worship the market like a gawd!", the State can see what billions fail to see, etc. etc. etc.

      ── That's not how it works. ──


      Yes, it is how it works.

      ── Markets can be as ugly, illogical and unpredictable ──

      That's funny!

      Oh, my Gawd - You're serious!


      HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!


      You, Trumpista.

      Delete
    3. Losses don't exist in your market. Participants are perfectly profound prognosticators of future conditions. Every participant profits because every participant has perfect knowledge of the market they participate in and perfect insight into how to take profitable action with those given market conditions. Shit, do markets even move? Why would they when they're always at perfect equilibrium?

      There's no shame in making bad arguments. Thinking is hard work. But it's inexcusable to be an annoying twerp while making bad arguments. I guess I shouldn't judge you too harshly since it's statistically likely that you came from the womb of a low IQ woman who married her first cousin.

      Delete
    4. Re: Stuffed Pimento,

      ── Losses don't exist in your market. ──

      Stop making stuff up. I never even implied such a thing.

      ── Participants are perfectly profound prognosticators of future conditions. ──

      Are you seriously bringing up Neo-classical fallacies? Do you at least understand them before you go out mouthing off?

      ── There's no shame in making bad arguments. Thinking is hard work. ──

      You're irony-impaired.

      Delete
  2. You don't want children separated from their parents? Wow, my hero. What a lofty moral branch you perch on.

    I get that it tears at your heartstrings to see these kids separated from their parents (by the way 5 in 6 kids detained came here without their parents). It is truly a sorrowful sight. But you haven't said what you're actually in favor of. The way I suss it out you're either saying 1) RW, with the power of central planning, would detain parents and their children together or 2) RW, with the power of central planning, would allow all immigrants unchecked; externalities be damned.

    By the way, have you heard that children DIE when government cuts FOOD STAMPS, MEDICAID, OR HOUSING SUBSIDIES? ARE YOU RW IN FAVOR OF DEAD CHILDREN OR MOAR GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES??? CHOOSE WISELY.

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    1. I love how *not* arresting people is somehow described as “central planning”

      Delete
    2. Re: Stuffed Pimento,

      --- 1) RW, with the power of central planning[sic] ---


      A planet where Trumpista Fascists call others "central planners"?

      Proposing that Markets handle immigration = "central planning" in the twisted and paranoid mind of a Trumpista. The WHO should have a new entry for Trumpism in their list of mental disorders.

      Delete
    3. Sorry, libwaps, I see now I have committed wrongthink. Help me understand. In Libertopia, do immigrants check in with the State before showing up for work at Mr. Market Co.? Or do they just run free over the non-border? If it's the latter, do they pay tolls as they use the public roads to get to Mr. Market Co.? Or wait, are there public roads? This jumping between two poorly defined worlds has me so confused.

      Delete
    4. Re: Stuffed Pimento,

      ── Sorry, libwaps ──

      That's funny!

      ── do immigrants check in with the State before showing up for work at Mr. Market Co.? ──

      There's supposed to be a State in Libertopia????

      This is the first time I've heard of this! Tell me more!

      ── Or do they just run free over the non-border? ──

      So-called "borders" are lines on a map placed there by conquerors. The partitions made on the German and Austria-Hungarian and Ottoman empires after WWI, or the lands taken from the Palestinians to build the country of Israel, provide evidence that this is so.

      ── Or wait, are there public roads? ──

      ROADZ!!!!

      See, I told you all: Trumpistas are nothing more that Marxians who pretend to be 'conservative' or 'libertarian'. Their frowsy rhetoric is indistinguishable from the same immature claptrap one read in the comments section of Gawker or Slate, which would compel even the most level-headed person to gouge his or her eyes out.

      Delete
    5. How clumsy of me. Of course in Libertopia private companies build and maintain roads for freeloaders. Equal, unmolested and free access to private goods and services - that's the motto of Mr. Market Co.

      That's why I keep the gate to my HOA's pool wide open. Private contracts and covenants be damned. Freedom of movement FTW!

      Delete
    6. Re: Stuffed Pimento

      --- How clumsy of me.---

      Your problem cannoy be explained as a mere case of 'clumsiness'.

      --- Of course in Libertopia private companies build and maintain roads for freeloaders. ---

      They do it for the ad revenue.

      Just becausr you LACK IMAGINATION doesn't mean the Market cannot solve the so-called 'free loader problem'. The Internet giants solved that problem easily and profitably.

      It's telling that you keep insisting on this Mr. Market joke, because it displays your lack of awareness. The Market is EVERYBODY, the billions of daily interactions between people who engage in the trade of goods, services and ideas. That's the Market. You have this caricature in your head which puts you in the same box with delusional Marxians.

      Delete
  3. --- In a PPS, if a pregnant immigrant mom and her toddlers wandered off and stole some apples to eat from a private farm, the property owner could shoot them in the head on the spot. ---

    Not if the property owner expects to keep good relations with his neighbors and trading partners. A person with such callous disregard for human life would not be one that can compete in a market with people with more scruples. Even uber selfish people would understand this logic if they're rational.

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  4. All someone has to do is look at Europe to see a real life example of what importing third-world shitholers does to your society.

    But libertarians don't live in the real world. It's why they are not taken seriously as leaders and shouldn't be.

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    1. Re: Twerking Nincompoop,

      --- All someone has to do is look at Europe [...] ---

      Which is irrelevant, since European governments are importing refugees, which is not the same as allowing immigrants, who are invariably invited in by The Market.

      --- But libertarians don't live in the real world. ---

      I don't know about that, but it is clear that Trumpistas live in a hobgoblin-laden dystopia of such hellish horrors that one can only wonder how can they even leave the underside of their beds, where they would cower while grabbing their blankys?

      Delete
    2. I think you just want America to be a shithole because its all that your family has ever known.

      Delete
    3. Apples and oranges, Twerking Surgeon. Europe is not the USA, so the comparison is a failed one. A greater standard of living and rising wealth accumulation---which the USA clearly enjoys an advantage over Europe and most other countries---aids, abets and facilitates assimilation between immigrant and host cultures. Unless there is a catastrophic economic crash and extreme hardships experienced in this country (which would pull at the seams of cultural and ethnic relations and trigger resentments and strife), then I don't see the pandemonium that you predict wholesale for the entire country----and certainly not from hard-working, Christian/Catholic immigrants coming from Central and South America...coming voluntarily of their own accord (not "imported" by host governments)...and nary a hate-filled Muslim among them.

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  5. I think we should do an experiment. Between Mexico, South America and Africa probably many tens of millions would like to come to the United States. Many for economic opportunities, yes, but even more for the perceived free benefits. My suggestion is to let 'em all in and see what all the Libertarians here think in a couple of years.

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    1. Glad you’re finally willing to advocate for freedom!

      Delete
    2. Re: Robert What?

      --- Many for economic opportunities, yes, but even more for the perceived free benefits. ---

      'Perceived', meaning 'non-existent', 'fantastic', 'made-up', 'imagined'.

      --- My suggestion is to let 'em all in and see what all the Libertarians here think in a couple of years. ---


      All that untapped labor? I'm game.

      Delete
  6. In Los Angeles & surrounding counties, where homelessness is an increasing problem, it almost never fails that on the freeway offramp you'll have an older white dude begging for money and next to him will be an illegal alien selling something- water, flowers, fruit, etc. It never fails.
    Just an observation.

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