Saturday, July 18, 2020

Who Should Libertarians Fear?

At the post, Federal Officers in Camouflage in Portland, regular commenter Donxon asks a very important question:
So.... what is scarier to libertarians... the smelly hippies in the streets or the government goon squads?
The answer is libertarians should fear both.

It is shocking to see U.S. government militarized personnel on the streets of a city. It sets a horrific precedent.

Today, the troops are quelling street protesters, who will they be used against tomorrow? Anti-vaxxers, church-goers who refuse to abide by lockdown orders?

The truth of the matter is that the state is evil. Except for very limited tactical situations, the state flexing its muscle is a very bad thing. As opposed to local police, national police of every stripe, from DEA agents to Border Patrol agents should be defunded immediately.

As for "smelly hippies in the streets," there is nothing about this crowd to be cheered. They are anti-private property and are the useful idiots of grand power-seeking schemers of the worst kind.

With both these groups, government squads and the street protesters, we are witnessing a battle for power.

It is the current power versus the schemers that would like to gain power. They are both using their tactical strengths in these clashes.

I am pro-freedom. It is the opposite of what is the ultimate goal of these groups or at least the ultimate goals of the puppetmasters behind the curtain.

In this period of growing turmoil, it must be the goal of libertarians to keep the message straight. Freedom and respect for individuals and private property are the way to go, not support for government thugs who serve to perpetuate the current direction of oppression or the street protesters who are the front line agitators for those who want to introduce even more oppression in the way of socialism.



  1. Thanks for the thoughtful response RW.

    Look closely at this video. Lots of BLM sulporters, and lots of definitely-not-communism. We can and should talk to these people.

  2. Unfortunately there is more than one enemy. The state and idiocracy both are going to need to be countered

  3. The Political Trichotomy fits this very well. I think the way some people have fleshed it out isn't correct but the basics are much better than other methods. Basically instead of the simplistic left right spectrum there is a triangle. The triangle's three corners are Individualism, Communism (collectivism), and absolutism. The Communists and Absolutists are both as far away from the individualists as each other. If indeed the federal government is using 16 years of anti-terrorism laws to black bag communists the individualists are correct to fear both. For it is both that will black bag us.

  4. I like neither - but I will take these 'cops' over the BMT thugs who took over CHOP in Seattle any day. And I guarantee you most sane Americans would as well.
    And Liberatarianism is politically dead until they embrace some form of welfare for the poorest of society. Telling starving American's 'sorry, either charity helps you or you starve to death' NEVER going to wash with Americans going forward. NEVER.
    I agree with 90% of what Libertarian's stand for. But this 19'th century attitude to the poor is ridiculous. Handing out cash to the needy is DEAD wrong. And SS must die. But government MUST provide basic shelter, food and basic medical care (full medical care for children) to those whom need it. Not money - regional, government shelters in place of welfare.
    Until Lineratarian's stop living in the 1800's on this - they will NEVER get ANY appreciable, political power...guaranteed.

    As for these military cops? You better get used to them. America is a complete mess...and it's mostly caused by the Fed. And until this Fed-propped up economy implodes (which is probably years away...maybe a decade+), this war between the classes is probably just going to get worse.
    THe lower and middle classes are getting economically left behind. And they know it. Unfortunately, they are too stupid/ignorant to realize it is the Fed that is causing it - not big business or free enterprise or corporations. It's the Fed. They are the enemy of everyone whom is not wealthy/whom loves free enterprise.

    1. Government housing gets you things like the crime filled housing projects in Chicago and/or all the problems with section 8.

      But I do agree that individuals can strike a bargain with the absolutists but not the communists. Absolutists have the capacity to leave individuals alone in a deal that is beneficial to them. Communists will absolutely never leave anyone alone.
      Now that deal with the absolutists may be sort of deal Darth Vader makes but with enough capital leverage that may be avoidable. Either way it is better because the communists will never ever leave individualists alone.

    2. Not quite sure what kind of “libertarian” you are talking about Rocket.
      Libertarians are not against the poor. Even the great Ron Paul addressed welfare and the poor from the libertarian perspective, but you seem to want political power for libertarians that won’t look any different than the political power that is in place already.
      “Until Lineratarian's stop living in the 1800's on this - they will NEVER get ANY appreciable, political power...guaranteed”
      I hope you are correct. Libertarians should NOT lust for political power, sure it sounds great, and a libertarian wouldn’t abuse his power, right? Bull.
      Robert just made a post on relying on political power for change in the black community, and you are espousing it for libertarians?
      Screw politics, screw political power, screw the whole apparatus of the state.

    3. Joshua Bennett. My point is that Libertarians are against government welfare. They believe that charity should take the place of all government welfare. I strongly disagree.
      There is no guarantee that charity will cover everyone. And every person must be guaranteed a safe, clean place to sleep, food to eat and basic medical care (full for children). This can be cheaply done by opening regional, government shelters where the poor can get a bed, food and basic medical care. No cash. No extras. Just the basics of survival.
      Libertarians are against this - they want to leave this idea 100% up to charities.
      That is wrong.
      Yes, charities are better than government - but they do not always cover everyone. There MUST be a last resort for people. And that must be offered by the government.
      And maybe you are not for political power...but I bet you most people who vote for the Libertarian Party are for a Libertarian government.
      As would I be if they fixed just a few things.

    4. Jimmy Joe Meeker - I am not concerned what crime these shelters would bring. Besides, I don't think there would be much crime. These are not apartments. I am talking about shelters...with cots, 'soup kitchens' and perhaps a doctor's clinic for those who stay there. Few would want to stay there for long. They would purely be a last resort for people. They would be built by those on welfare and run by those on the cost to build/run them would be a tiny fraction of the crazy costs of welfare today. And they would take the place of ALL welfare in America.

  5. David Friedman in "Machinery Of Freedom" had a chapter called "Revolution is the hell of it". He urged libertarians to avoid both sides during a revolutionary situation and talk to people later.

    1. Makes sense to me. Taking sides - when both sides are acting silly - gets people no where. Let these idiots fight amongst themselves. And when they stop acting like children - people with common sense will be there to pick up the pieces.